 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Deb Grabetz
Support Team
|
Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 17:23 |
|
Nice Joyful....look at that fish....oooohhhh!
Pat, who is an MP member also provided a pdf file for anyone wishing to print out this list.
http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/VitD_content_of_foods.pdf
Last edited on Tue Nov 25th, 2008 05:47 by
____________________
Sarcoidosis/lungs, lymph,liver, GI, neuro, D12542, Ph17/07, MPh2 9/07, B12, cover up, NoIRs,return to work after 2 years off- 4/07D2511
5/09 D25<4
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
|
Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 05:49 |
|
Excellent, Thanks.
Note that some of the entries start one line high. See, for example:
Salmon Pink (humpback) baked
3159 or broiled
Thanks to everyone for this wonderful resource 
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 797 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 05:09 |
|
The source was from Health Canada so the numbers may only be perfectly accurate for Canadian foods, but they seem helpful in any case.
Some may find the Excel spreadsheet version helpful (especially if you like to sort, etc.):
http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/VitD_content_of_foods.xls
____________________
Search the MP Knowledge Base __ Be Kind, We Are All Fragile
•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•
|
Russ
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 29th, 2008 19:37 |
|
After reading this thread, another thread in this forum that is also titled "Vitamin D" (link), and a related discussion in garyv's progress report in the Phase 2 forum at the main site (link), I am more confused than ever about what foods one must avoid due to Vitamin D content and which are safe to eat. Here are the "gray" areas that seem to be causing confusion for me and others...
1. Meat (Pork, Beef, Chicken, etc.)
- The "Foods to Avoid" list at the main site lists liver and other organ meats, bacon, and foods fried in pork lard (and presumably pork lard itself) on the foods to avoid list. All other meat is said to be ok: "Animal fat present in unprocessed meat (excluding liver and organ meats) does not contain enough Vitamin D to put it on the foods to avoid list."
- However, in a recent post in the other "Vitamin D" thread in this forum, a member points out that according to one source of vitamin D values for foods, a reasonable portion of chicken or pork (100g/3.5oz) contains about 80 IU of Vitamin D (three times the amount of an egg yolk). The Vitamin D values for chicken and pork listed in http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/VitD_content_of_foods.xls are lower, but still for both chicken and pork (and beef as well) the Vitamin D content for a single serving (3-4oz) is listed as between 18-30IU which is comparable to an egg yolk (25IU). As was pointed out in the other thread, if egg yolks are on the foods to avoid list and it has been said that one egg yolk is enough to make an MPer sick, then these values would seem to indicate that meat has too much Vit D as well.
- It has been pointed out that one problem with meat is that their factory-farm feed may contain Vitamin D and therefore that pasture/grass fed meat would be better. However, in the discussion in garyv's progress report, there is a link to an article that says that pasture/grass fed pork has a higher Vit D content than other pork because they are soaking in all that sunshine out in the pasture.
- Also in the discussion in garyv's progress report, a moderator says that "Unfortunately the MP link on meat is very incorrect in my knowledge and understanding and needs to be revised. Meat contains D as D3 and 25-D in fat, blood and tissues; and small farm raised pork has quite a bit. Vegetarians typically have very low levels of 25-D if they do not take supplements, and the most logical conclusion is that some meat does contain a significant amount of D in various forms."
- In the past I've seen posts suggesting there is more Vit D in the fat portion of meat and that therefore lean cuts of meat would be preferred for their lower VIt D content. But I remember seeing a more recent post indicating that there is no evidence that there is more VIt D in fat than in other tissues.
- So, I guess the questions for meat I have are 1) Is the Vit D content of meat really trivial as the "Foods to Avoid" list indicates or is the Vit D content comprable to an egg yolk as sources seem to indicate? 2) Are there certain types of meat that would be lower Vit D content that others (chicken vs. beef vs. pork), (factory farmed vs. pasture/greass fed), (lean/skinsless vs. with skin/fat)?
2. Butter & Cheese
- The "Foods to Avoid" list says to avoid butter, cheese and other dairy products that are fortified with Vitamin D but that unfortified sources are fine to eat. It also says that the Vitamin A content of dairy products can sometimes be used as an indication as to whether or not a product is fortified with Vitamin D.
- Many members seem to eat large amounts of unfortified dairy products, especially cheese.
- In http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/VitD_content_of_foods.xls, there are a few listings for cheese and all are between 18-22IU per 50g. That makes 2 slices of cheese equivalent to an egg yolk. Are we assuming that these values for cheese are either wrong or refer to fortified cheese?
- Butter is not listed in that document, but This Source (scroll about halfway down) lists butter as 56 IU per 100g which makes about 3 tbsp of butter (a reasonable daily intake) equal to an egg yolk. Again, not clear if this is referring to fortified or unfortified butter, but the absence of milk on that list might indicate they are listing natural sources. Are we to assume that this value is also either wrong or referring to fortified products?
One more thing I wanted to point out. I was eating a lot of bacon before I realized it was on the Foods to Avoid list. I felt much better after eliminating it and also seemed to get a bit of increased herx/withdrawal symptoms a couple days after cutting out. Yet my 25D value never rose above single digits. That would seem to indicate to me that a low 25D value is not enough to verify that one is not consuming VIt D and that it is still possible that there is Vit D in one's diet that is causing symptoms even if that 25D value is low.
I know everyone is busy recovering or helping others recover, or both, but since the avoidance of ingested Vitamin D is such an important part of the protocol it seems like it would be worthwhile for us to put our heads together and get this sorted out. Especially in regards to meat, it seems that there are others besides me who are unsure of what is ok. The fact that a low-carb diet is recommended (and indeed I feel a ton better when eating low-carb) makes it difficult to simply cut out meat just to be on the safe side since it's tough to eat both low-carb and no-meat.
My computer time is somewhat limited due to eye IP, but if we can get some of these things figued out I'll volunteer to write up a document/post that clarifies these things and answers these questions.
Thanks,
Russ
Last edited on Mon Dec 29th, 2008 19:50 by Russ
____________________
Lyme, MCS, ADD, optic nerve inflammation | Phase 1: Jul '06 | Phase 3: Jul '07 | 25D: 5 ng/ml (Oct '09)
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 797 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2008 02:07 |
|
Hi Russ,
Thanks for that nice synopsis of the various and somewhat conflicting information on dietary D found in the FAQs and recent postings on the forum.
Perhaps you could take a look at the related Marshall Protocol Knowledge Base article here,
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:food:foods_containing_vitamin_d,
and provide your comments in the section at the bottom called "Notes and comments".
Thank you!
____________________
Search the MP Knowledge Base __ Be Kind, We Are All Fragile
•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•
|
Deb Grabetz
Support Team
|
Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2008 12:24 |
|
Hi Russ,
Thanks for pointing out the variables for all of us here!
I have found personally that even as my D levels have reduced I feel much better when avoiding trigger foods such as eggs on a regular basis. I order eggs without the yolk and have done so now since beginning the MP because why add it to my total intake?? I remember reading a comment of Trevor's that drinking a small amount of milk occasionally is different than consuming glassfuls daily and have always used this as a guideline regarding all of the D foods...moderation! There are some pretty obvious ones on the D foods list that one would want to avoid due to the extremely high content, such as the fish category, cod liver oil and any Vitamin D supplements themselves!
Of course, when it comes to fish in the higher ranges I have given this up completely. I have found that these are like poisin to my body. Within a few months of my recent flare, two years ago, I had increased my intake of salmon and halibut, it was a very distinct connection to my ills and of course this was confirmed with the MP research!
Keep us posted on your findings! Deb
____________________
Sarcoidosis/lungs, lymph,liver, GI, neuro, D12542, Ph17/07, MPh2 9/07, B12, cover up, NoIRs,return to work after 2 years off- 4/07D2511
5/09 D25<4
|
Russ
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 30th, 2008 19:09 |
|
| Thanks Joyful and Deb. How do I add a comment to that Knowledge Base page? I don't see an "add comment" button or anything like that.
____________________
Lyme, MCS, ADD, optic nerve inflammation | Phase 1: Jul '06 | Phase 3: Jul '07 | 25D: 5 ng/ml (Oct '09)
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 797 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 31st, 2008 02:47 |
|
Hi Russ,
Click on the {login} button, then click on Register at the bottom of the login box...
or just click on the link here:You don't have an account yet? Just get one: Register
Once you are registered, I would strongly recommend you watch the getting started video by Paul here: http://www.vimeo.com/2273081
You may also find it helpful to look over some of the more 'recent' discussion on the development of the wiki.
Thanks for volunteering!
____________________
Search the MP Knowledge Base __ Be Kind, We Are All Fragile
•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•
|
Russ
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 20:13 |
|
| Thanks Joyful. Comment added.
____________________
Lyme, MCS, ADD, optic nerve inflammation | Phase 1: Jul '06 | Phase 3: Jul '07 | 25D: 5 ng/ml (Oct '09)
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 797 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2009 05:02 |
|
Good going Russ!
Thanks.
____________________
Search the MP Knowledge Base __ Be Kind, We Are All Fragile
•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•´'`•.¸♥¸.•
|
paulalbert
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 16th, 2004 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 616 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2009 19:13 |
|
I took Russ's spreadsheet and made it into a sortable table:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:food:vitamind:dcontentfoods
We still need to reconcile some of the inconsistencies between this table and the main article on vitamin D in food:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:food:vitamind
Also, we should probably mention the table in the main vitamin D article.
Paul
____________________
Diag CFS 6.03 / sympt since 9.02 / exercise, food intol, sleep prob / 1,25D: 16, 4.06; 1,25D:27, 25D:26 7.04; 1,25D:43, 25D:6 6.05; 1,25D:17, 25D:8 8.05; / MP: 7.04 / Ph. 3 / MP Gallery
|
Russ
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2009 19:50 |
|
| FYI, I can't take credit for creating that spreadsheet. I think it was Pat's creation with the data coming from the Health Canada website.
____________________
Lyme, MCS, ADD, optic nerve inflammation | Phase 1: Jul '06 | Phase 3: Jul '07 | 25D: 5 ng/ml (Oct '09)
|
paulalbert
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 16th, 2004 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 616 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2009 20:01 |
|
I had doubts that you were doing the measurements.
It would be nice to have a more exact source.
Do you have a link or something?
Paul
____________________
Diag CFS 6.03 / sympt since 9.02 / exercise, food intol, sleep prob / 1,25D: 16, 4.06; 1,25D:27, 25D:26 7.04; 1,25D:43, 25D:6 6.05; 1,25D:17, 25D:8 8.05; / MP: 7.04 / Ph. 3 / MP Gallery
|
Russ
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2009 20:09 |
|
Here's the link to where the data came from:
http://205.193.93.51/cnfonline/prepareNutrientSearch.do
Other members retrieved the data and produced the documents (there is also a pdf file in addition to the spreadsheet -- see earlier posts in this thread). I have no idea if there was any verification process to see if the data from this site was accurate. Data on nutritional values seems to be widely variable depending on the source, and Vitamin D data seems to be even more variable than other nutrients (i know, i know, vitamin D is not a nutrient!!! ).
Last edited on Thu Jan 8th, 2009 20:15 by Russ
____________________
Lyme, MCS, ADD, optic nerve inflammation | Phase 1: Jul '06 | Phase 3: Jul '07 | 25D: 5 ng/ml (Oct '09)
|
Ron
Foundation Staff
|
Posted: Tue Jan 20th, 2009 21:11 |
|
Deb Grabetz wrote: I have found personally that even as my D levels have reduced I feel much better when avoiding trigger foods such as eggs on a regular basis.
Some Th1-diseased people indeed seem to become ill after ingesting Vitamin D. As Belinda states on the Vitamin D Tutorial page:
We know now that hormone D (1,25-D) activates the immune system. However, the increased use of nutritional vitamin D (25-D)is suppressing the immune systems of people with immune disease who can be made ill by additional vitamin D.
However, Dr. Marshall on the same page is saying:
Ipso facto, when 1,25-D is elevated because a Th1 patient is ingesting Vitamin D, the immune system cannot kill the intraphagocytic bacteria, there is less cytokine release, and the patient feels better and may even become less symptomatic - in the short term.
I've been wondering how to explain this seeming paradox. On the one hand Th1-patients can become feeling sick after ingesting Vitamin D but on the other hand may feel better because of immune-suppression.
Could it be that after ingestion a sudden rise in 1,25-D throws the hormones off balance? Just a thought.
Ron
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
|
Posted: Wed Jan 21st, 2009 00:09 |
|
Did I really say that? It must have been a long, long, time ago Some of that stuff keeps coming back to haunt me
Seriously though, the problem is that as the level of 1,25-D gets too high, it starts affecting the thyroid, glucocorticoid and mineralcorticoid receptors, all of which play an essential role in immune response. That is why Olmesartan has to be used to reactivate the VDR, and why 1,25-D itself does not work once the bugs get hold on the VDR. The level which you need to reactivate the VDR is high enough to shut down the other receptors.
Amy discussed these issues during her talk in Porto, and in her new paper, soon to appear in a 'prestigious peer-reviewed journal'
http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/transcripts/ICA2008_Transcript_AmyProal.pdf
|
carol
Support Team
|
Posted: Wed Jan 21st, 2009 03:51 |
|
Ron wrote: Could it be that after ingestion a sudden rise in 1,25-D throws the hormones off balance? Just a thought.
Ron:
I think when one feels bad shortly after an isolated case of ingesting a food high in vitamin D it can, indeed, be due to hormonal fluctuation. I believe I have experienced this.
This does not seem (to me) to be in conflict with what is known about the dynamics of vitamin D chemistry in the body.
Carol
____________________
rheumatoid arthritis dx '96...started MP 8/11/04...initial D tests (7/11/04): 25-D=32; 1,25-D=65...phase 2 started 12/6/04...phase 3 started 2/26/06...vicodin & valium as needed for pain...last 25-D=9 (5/08)
|
Ron
Foundation Staff
|
Posted: Wed Jan 21st, 2009 22:59 |
|
Oh yes, no doubt you will be haunted Dr. Marshall. But fortunately chances are that you will long outlive your haunters, especially those taking 5000 IU of D3 a day. 
Thanks for referring to Amy's talk. The part about the suppressed immune response is very clear, I guess I was looking for confirmations of an acute hormonal dysregulation after Vitamin D intake. Now Amy states in her talk that 25-D by itself is able to "displace exogenous ligands from the nuclear receptors". If that includes receptors other than the VDR then a surge in 25-D could also affect the hormonal balance.
Carol, thank you for sharing your experiences. Indeed it does not conflict with the Vitamin D metabolism as we have become to understand it. Did you experience those fluctuations before commencing the MP?
Thanks,
Ron
Last edited on Wed Jan 21st, 2009 23:01 by Ron
|
eClaire
Member
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 1417 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 31st, 2009 01:09 |
|
Fish oil pills don't boost benefit of heart drugs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_he_me/med_fish_oil_heart
____________________
42mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob IBS/GERD osteopor; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings; Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08
* Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan09 * Olm.alone.Jun10
|
carol
Support Team
|
Posted: Wed Apr 1st, 2009 03:34 |
|
I was watching the evening news tonight (NBC) and saw a story on the puzzling rise in kidney stones among children.
Hummm…..
I wonder what the 1,25-D level is in these children? Kidney stones are documented as a symptom of hypervitaminosis D.
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/2588.html
Sounds like another manifestation of vitamon D overdose in our population.
Carol
____________________
rheumatoid arthritis dx '96...started MP 8/11/04...initial D tests (7/11/04): 25-D=32; 1,25-D=65...phase 2 started 12/6/04...phase 3 started 2/26/06...vicodin & valium as needed for pain...last 25-D=9 (5/08)
|
Current time is 12:43 | Page:   1 2 3   |
|
|
|
|
