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MP-Lifestyles Discussion > MP-Lifestyle Discussion - Publicly Viewable > Forum for MP Lifestyles Discussions > old timers over 50 who have substantially recovered on the MP


old timers over 50 who have substantially recovered on the MP
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eClaire
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 02:02

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Just today my psychologist (whose specialty is now neuro psychology) was listening to a few of my neuro IPs (I have no idea why I brought them up), and he became concerned b/c he said that people over 50 exhibiting the type of neuro symptomology that I am having tend not to recover (i.e., it's an early sign of dementia, which no doubt was happening to me, as when I became totally disabled I forgot my last name and would get lost in my neighborhood). 

And so naturally my psychologist is interested in whether other over 50 folk who have substantially recovered on the MP have had their fine motor skills tested, which of course got me curious.

As I read about fingertapping on line, I realized that my fine motor skills (via the finger tapping test) would probably have been pretty low most of my life because writing has always been painful for me (a sign of motor dysgraphia) and writing more than a paragraph legibly is difficult (though doable...thanks goodness for keyboards). 

At any rate, he tested me (no additional charge) and found that my fine motor skills on the finger tapping tests (we are going to try others and follow me every three months throughout the remainder of the MP to see if I have improvement) on my right hand showed that I was in the lower 10% of people my age.  My left hand was in the lower 5%. 

I was noticeably sick with TH1 illness by the time I learned to write and so if these skills improve it will mean that I've achieved significant brain recovery (and probably not just since I became disabled). 

He suggested that I do some brain retraining once I regain my physical health, and I have a program designed for the elderly through Humana and plan to work on that as soon as I can see that my brain is returning (the brain that used to make being an attorney a breeze).

If you've had any of this testing done and noticed an improvement on the MP, please let me know...to satisfy my curiosity.

Claire

Last edited on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 02:02 by eClaire



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PaulT
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 05:59

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Interesting Claire

I'm not quite 50 (47 last week) and haven't had a formal test but anecdotally I am finding that my fine motor is improving heaps - except of course on bad IP days.  I have gone from not being able to play guitar to playing quite comfortably - also having far less clutzo days

Paul



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eClaire
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 08:12

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Interestingly I believe that even if my brain capacity remained as reduced as is it is now, I would be very happy and be able to find work that I enjoy.  I wouldn't have the wherewithall the be an attorney, but I no longer want to be one.  I've develop a sort of radical acceptance of what I have lost cognitiviely and although I can see what I used to be cable of, it just does not matter any longer.  All I care is that my body recovers.  Claire



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Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 13:10

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Ha!  In China I enjoyed being able to run down (and even up) stairs without gripping the handrails. Two years ago, in Australia, I still gripped those rails.

My hosts were afraid I was going to fall. So why did I do it?
Because I can...





ps: Claire, the Foundation will need good attorneys as we move forward. And good administrators, and... :):)
 

Freddie Ash
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 13:16

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HI CLAIRE & ALL

This is Fred in WV.  I do not know if this is what you are asking, but here goes, I have noticed as of late that when I put my pants on now I can stand on one leg much better than I use to.  I do not fall over trying to put one leg in and then the other one.

I not sure what the test of fingertappingon line is, but I do type much better than just a few months ago.  My speed has moved up.  So it does not take as long to type messages as it use to before the MP.

I hope this helps.  Right now I still have some lose when trying to remember names at time. 

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis

Freddie

PS: I am now 69.



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Caitiegirl
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 16:16

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I sort of feel that Caitie is the Queen of motor disfunction right now. Honestly, when they tap her knee to test her reflexes her arm jerks! Her motor skills come and go so blatantly with the antibiotic I have no doubts that it's all Th1. I guess that only leaves the question of how much healing will take place and is the damage permanent? I just choose not to think we are stuck here. It's great they will be keeping up with your progress so it can be documented Claire.
Mindy

BTW one interesting note on fine motor skills and dysgraphia. Caitie's always had terrible handwriting. Now that we are experiencing some degree of healing, she is officially left handed and has a nice, legible handwriting.  Apparently her teachers in school encouraged her to use the right hand so she has always used her right hand for writing but nothing else. It turns out that a lot of motor skill problems are actually from mixed brain dominance because you were meant to be left handed. Something else to think about.

Last edited on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 16:22 by Caitiegirl



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Debz
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 Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 23:10

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I was talking to a gentlemen about MP and he kept listening so intently. When I finished, he said he was a retired Orthopedic Surgeon and wanted me to write down the site; because it was a lot of info and I talked fast. Then he pointed out some more Dr. that were around us in the grocery store and I started laughing. I told him, "I wish I could convince all my Th1 family members. I told him that I felt I was talking, thinking, typing 1/2 time and my face was stone/asymetrical before I started MP.  When I get hurt I'm more sensitive now.

Debz




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eClaire
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 00:35

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* Claire laughing *  No, I am definitely right hand dominant.  I can't even use a brush in my left hand while blowing drying my hair with the blow dryer in the right (or vice versa); I end up hitting myself in the head!:D



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JanEE
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 01:49

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Mirrors do funny things.  I'm the same way with my hair when fixing it in front of a mirror.  I find myself combing it toward my face when I want to comb it back, so it's easy to imagine you bonking yourself in the head with a blowdryer.
 
The other odd thing is that when I go to put in my contacts, I can't do it without a mirror, or I just see that finger coming straight at my eye.  If I use a mirror I see the finger headed toward my reflection's eye, so it doesn't bother me. 
 
I've also been noticing a lot of self-portraits in art magazines lately and all of them must be painting themselves backwards as they have to do it looking into a mirror (unless they use a photograph for reference).  People just don't look the same backwards.   Another odd test is to use a mirror to see how different each side of one's face is from the other side.  Take a mirror (frameless is best) with straight edges and a portrait of yourself, or anyone, facing full front.  Hold the mirror at right angles onto the picture surface, and vertically from the top of the head to the chin.  When held facing the right side of the face it will reflect that image and you will see a whole face.  Then when the mirror is turned to face the left side, the same thing will happen, but you will see a different expression, and sometimes a different face.  Someone with a perfectly symetrical face won't see much change at all.  It's kind of fun, and funny too.
 
Jan



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Dogster
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 03:41

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Hi Claire,

what are the finger tapping tests like?   I probably cant even make the first paragraph legible, or at most the first paragraph but not the following ones. (I had intuited that this wasnt a good sign, and neuro connected, plus my mother had parkinsons--or a neruo/motor aspect of the whole th1 thingy.  On the other hand, some of the dexterity of my right hand and right arm is coming back, and i have intentionally worked on some of it on my own.)

I am right hand dominant, but have been ambidextrous for a few things, and left handed in a couple things i learned as a kid and didnt realize I was learning left-handed.  For example, I shoot bow and arrow only left handed.  And play cards only left handed.  But anyway, the method i used to get some coordination and dexterity back in my right hand/arm didnt (yet?) work for my left hand/arm. 

Also, I've gotten a lot of the quickness and dexterity and fast reflexes back in my right hand and fingers, but still cant write very legibly.  Do you understand that?  But havent gotten the quickness nor dexterity nor fast reflexes back in the left hand. 

It seems in my case the drain bamage (ie brain damage) and fatigue and exertion problems are going to be the last things to heal up. Wonder if this is common?

I've thought about getting brain retraining later, but also think probably by the time one is about ready for that one wont really need it!!!!????####****!!!!  It seems that just about anything one does other than get the infection out of the cells is kinda like pushing on a string . . . which is kind of the same reason none of the other modalities of healing helped much if at all . . .

Interesting thread you started . . .

 

Last edited on Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 03:44 by Dogster



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eClaire
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:18

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Jan,

Back when I wore contacts (I had to stop in short order due to a problem where my eyes created a sort of grit in the eyelid from wearing contacts) over 20 years ago, I had the same issue.  Trying to put contacts in my eyes without a mirror was like willingly putting a stick in my eye!:shock:

From another study on this site, researchers (researching the affects of alcohol on women's ability to see symmetry in men's faces) mention that symmetrical faces are supposed to be a sign of better genes (and therefore more attractive to women whom I guess from all the research I've read are in charge of selecting good genes when it comes to matchmaking).  My face is two faces (though I don't think it's that noticeable to most folk looking at me), however, don't underestimate the power of forceps used during birth to change one's face.  I had a doctor diagnose that as a problem with my forehead (the way the bones/plates were placed in reference to each other making forehead headaches very likely) and pointed out that foreceps had been used and injured one side of my face.  I asked my mother and sure enough he was right.  The damaged side when reflected gives me a turned down, sad look (perhaps a little nerve damage), somewhat fallen.  The other side is cheerful looking.  Put together I have a great smirk.:?

(Supposedly I was born nearly two months pre-mature and it was a very difficult birth--mom was told not to have any more children for at least four years--...mom was also bedridden during the entire pregnancy to prevent spontaneous abortion.  Yep, I was born with a boat load of bacteria.:shock:)

At any rate, the doc jumped at the chance to manually manipulate my face for no charge since he didn't get the chance to manipulate many faces.  He got rid of the forehead problem and I didn't have to pay a penny. 

Dogster,

The finger tapping uses a simple little plate with a spring connected to a counter.  I tried really really hard to go fast and was in disbelief when he told me my results.  In early January, he's going to run a different test and I suppose those are the two he is going to track over the next few years. 

I know what you mean about getting some skills back but still having terrible hand writing.  My hand writing was a problem from the beginning but I didn't start transposing my i's and e's when typing and 3's and 8's when writing until I was around 30.  Actually, I've been watching a decline in my neuro functioning most of my whole life.  So I imagine that getting well can be like going backwards.  The last thing to heal might be my handwriting.

Although I haven't had much emotional IP, I've had a lot of neuro IP.  For periods I haven't known what keyboard keys were under the domain of the pinky and ring fingers of my right hand and had to look at the keys to find what I was looking for (and I've been typing for 40 years).  The other day I wrote a brief email and every word had a typo.  Sigh....

Still, even if I did not recover what seems to have been lost, I am happy with who I am and know I'd find a way to adjust if the major benefit of my going through this process was feeling well physically.  I wonder if anyone on the MP has had an MRI that showed spots missing in the brain (as what happens to folk with MS, CFS when really ill, and dementia).  The last MRI I had about six years ago or so was okay; however, I wonder now.  It would be interesting if someone had the spots (not wishing that on anyone) and an MRI were able to show that they filled in after the MP.

Claire

Last edited on Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:20 by eClaire



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shegeek
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 08:08

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Claire,

When I read where you said you had two faces, the first thing that came to mind was that you were a set of chimera twins. I checked Goodsearch to see if my thought was plausible, and I found this, which blew my mind. Apparently, not only can fraternal twins fuse at the embryo stage to become one person with two sets of DNA, our mothers', children's (for women) and even grandmothers' cells commonly cross the placenta and live in our bodies for many years. At the very least, this would be another pathway for us to inherit Th1 organisms at birth.



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cwylie1
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 14:19

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Great Topic~

I am 53 but have only been on the MP for7 mo. However, I have noted some interesting things. Handwriting goes from very beautiful (people comment) to quite sloppy.  Even my dementia pts will comment :).  Currently, the emotional herxing is in full force along w/ night sweats and terrible sleep. The Quercetin at 1/2cap bid works wonders w/that. A month ago, I was able to sit down and write progress notes w/no difficulty (nice!) but now it is painfully difficult to sit still and do it (ala ADD). Last week I spent a 14 hr. day cleaning and staging my house for an appraiser to come see it for a refinanceing.  I was soooooooooo wiped out.  We did get the appraisal we wanted. :D

My father had Parkinson's and my mother currently seems to be into the mild confusional stage of dementia according to the Global Deterioration Scale (GDS).  I would like to point out that the first stage (forgetful stage) of the GDS describes my ADD pretty well and I think all my colleagues, including myself would qualify for that scale.  I think my mother would still do fine on other, more objective scales at this time (but I don't really know).  She has had the CT scan showing the holes in the brain caused by many undiagnosed TIAs (mini strokes).  We are only aware of one many years ago.

Claire, I am interested to know, what is the program for brain retraining by Humana which you mention in your first post?  There are many types of exercises which can help with cognition (I use them w/ my patients) but I haven't heard of a program thru Humana.

My difficulty w/specific word retrieval comes and goes.  Sometimes embarrasing for the speech pathologist to have the same difficulty for which she is treating patients. ;)  Mostly, it is a hesitation where I have to allow my brain more processing time to find the word.  All of this is very stroke-like so I am paying attention.  Staying as unstressed as possible and getting good quality sleep is oh, so important.  And as I wrote above, my sleep has gone from good (with the quercetin) to absolutely horrible (like last Thurs. and Fri. nights) where I don't think I got more than 3 hrs. in divided sessions. I was falling asleep in my dinner as I sat on the couch oneevening last week :P

Physical energy has been at a low for the past month or so, so no running up the stairs for me right now! 

When I first started the MP I noticed some of my ADD and other difficulties improving but now the emotional and neurological herxing override everything.  My perfume sensitivity has diminished greatly which has been a God send. Joint pain comes and goes, mostly going.

I've 'talked' too long.  But an interesting topic and I look forward to hearing how others are doing.

Thanks again eClaire,
Carol    :cool:



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eClaire
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 17:27

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Hey Shegeek,

That's a very interesting point you raise.  Without going into detail, I once had surgery to have something removed and it turned out not to be what the doctors expected.  It was tooth material, hair, bone in a little bundle (at least that is what they told me...I didn't ask to see).  At the time, it made me wonder if I absorbed a twin.  So weird.

Carol,

I definitely relate to the coming and going of neuro symptoms, particularly with MP IP.  My word find problems started in my late 20s.  I called it "losing the nouns," as it is usually restricted to nouns (I could picture the noun, describe the noun--even using part of the noun in the description--, but not find the noun).  And forget names, I have never been able to remember names, as they are too abstract.  At least all chairs have a chair-like quality, but Claires?  All they have in common is that they are human.  I find that I have the least problem when public speaking--that is, when I gave a talk--oddly enough.  That is, if I am on a roll, my brain works better (like cranking up an engine I guess and taking it out on the road). 

The Humana program was offered to me free when I joined in 2006 via a little flyer in the mail.  I received a packet with an introductory DVD, and installation CD, and special ear phones.  The program is done online.  I am hoping that they still have it in place when I am through with most of my neuro IP, as I figured that is when I might best benefit (with all the coming and going of symptoms, it would be difficult to note any progress). 

The program was developed by Posit Science Corporation.  The packet also came with a companion guide, which I can't lay my hands on at the moment.  THAT would better explain the brain exercises.  Sorry.  (Hope I find that by the time I start the program.) 

I figure that even if I am restored to full neuro functioning by the MP, I should probably do the program just because I've been home and out of the world and not using my brain like I used to (not that I could). 

Claire



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eClaire
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 Posted: Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 04:25

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Whoa!  I decided to send an email to my psychologist to let him know that I have always had motor dygraphia, and I decided to take a look at some of the related issues in Wikipedia. 

Turns out I've always had dyscalculia (though gifted in higher math as can be the case)...so many of the sxs listed.  And I thought I was just weird.  I loved math despite these problems, particularly with time (and never being able to memorize the times tables). 

No doubt I'd be diagnosed with dyspraxia as well.  I laughed when it mentioned about bumping into people, as I've always said that that is my inability to stop.  I'm usually saying, "I'm sorry" before I run into the person.  The dyspraxia is not as bad as the other two, though, as I can dance...truly.  It's not just my opinion.  And I was athletic and good at the sports I tried.  Like being a speaker at a workshop and experiencing little difficulty with word finding, I would get into the zone in athletic endeavors and do just fine.  Advanced slopes skiing fine.  Ice skating fine.  Etc.  (This reminds me of stutterers who don't stutter when they sing.  I do sometimes develop a stammer, but it goes away relatively quickly.)

At any rate, these have been life-long neuro issues with additional neuro issues piling on as I got sicker.  * Claire laughing *  I remember when I first read about ADD in any detail, which was about 10 years ago (I just took for granted that I was ADD before then).  I discovered that so much of what I had attributed to my personality (things that had driven other people batty about and I felt no ability to change) was actually attributable to a cluster of ADD symptoms.  Reading about these disorders feels like that.  "Hey, THAT belongs to me!":shock:  Being clumsy is part of my identity!!

I hope the MP helps with these life-long issues, and if it does, OMG! who am I going to be?!!

Claire..


Last edited on Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 04:34 by eClaire



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JanEE
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 Posted: Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 05:05

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Claire, I dunno.  But, who you've been sounds pretty darn interesting!
 
Jan



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Caitiegirl
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 Posted: Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 13:32

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Wow Claire,
Caitie has so many of these same traits. Especially the math stuff. I could never figure out how someone who could do higher level math couldn't tell time or remember her multiplication tables.

Interestingly one of the first symptoms before her crash and burn 2 years ago was an inability to keep any sort of time when playing the piano. It drove her teacher mad. Even a metronome didn't work. It was something she simply could no longer do. Looking back, I guess it should have sent off bells and whistles.

BTW with the brain dominance thing it may be the eyes that are left or right brained not the hands. That seems to be the issue with a lot of people. They have learned to lead with their right hands over time but their vision is still hard wired to be "left-handed." Sorrry I have this way of drifting off topic.
Mindy



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Caitiegirl
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 Posted: Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 13:32

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Oops double post. Never had that happen before.
Mindy

Last edited on Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 13:34 by Caitiegirl



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eClaire
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 Posted: Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 15:19

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Thanks Jan,

Mostly, I've always had a good attitude about life and an a great appreciation for the absurd.  (I hear God laughing all the time.)

Mindy,

I do catch with my left hand (that's how one learns with a baseball glove) and rather well (so odd to be a clumsy oaf yet do some physical and spatial things really well...like I always called myself "quantity woman" b/c when taking something from one type of container and putting it in another entirely different shape and height, I'd always know what was the most efficient container).  Also, if someone were to come at me, I'd extend my left arm first to protect myself.  I hear much better out of my left ear.  My left eye however is weaker than my right eye, though I don't know if that really tells you about dominance.

I could never ever do any math problem that involved time.  When they would come up in school, which was all too frequently, I wished there was some rock I could crawl under..."and Train B leaves the station heading south at...."  I still cannot knowing the date today tell you what the date will be this time next week.  I have to look on a calendar.  And I did think it awful weird that I couldn't read an analog clock at a glance...I'd have to repeat what I read several times and translate it into the "hands" position on a regular clock.  Then aside from multiplication, which I finally learned up through 6X6, there's division.  It's all the same issue, eh?  Being able to use calculators helped a lot.

It's interesting that you know these things about Caitie.  I worked really hard to hide my learning deficits b/c I was otherwise very bright and a lot was expected of me by my teachers.  Knowing I couldn't do lots of "basic" stuff and trying to hide that led to my finding ways to get around the deficits, which lead to later success in college, etc.  Lucky me that my brain processed quickly and so I could do my get arounds quickly.

I recognize my brother in a lot of these traits as well.  He famously could not tell his left hand from his right and could remember that the left hand was the wedding ring finger, but he had to take time to think that through every time left or right was mentioned.

I was just remembering about the dyspraxia and the following used to drive my ex-partner crazy.  We'd be in the kitchen doing something and I'd decide that I'd want to get into the cupboard for the trash or into the dishwasher and she'd be at the sink, which was definitely in the way of the dishwaher and sometimes the trash.  At any rate, once I'd made the decision that I needed to get into the trash and started moving in that direction, I could not slow myself down and register that she was in the way and it took all I could to learn to say "excuse me" as I was bumping into her.  I think she took it as a sign of disrespect even as I frequently tried to explain that the process seemed well outside my control much in the way I ran into people when out in public once I got myself headed toward something.

Claire

Last edited on Tue Dec 23rd, 2008 15:23 by eClaire



____________________
42mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob IBS/GERD osteopor; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings; Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08
* Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan09 * Olm.alone.Jun10
Deb Grabetz
Support Team
 

Joined: Fri Mar 9th, 2007
Location: Monroe Michigan, USA
Posts: 1089
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Feb 5th, 2009 05:07

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Wow, Claire interesting topic!  My own experience has taught me that I hardly recognized how poorly my body was functioning until I started improving after months on the MP.  Two months ago in fact, I returned to piano lessons.  I may have posted this before but my teacher comments on how well I'm able to read and pick up new pieces he presents.  Oddly, I realized that I could barely do a scale of notes before I crashed and burned two years ago.  There are many instances like this that were not even recognizable to me, until I started regaining my health.

Most of all I have noticed how my train of thought has returned---I would sit for hours unable to accomplish anything significant prior to MP---now I can't seem to keep up physically with everything my "brain" wants to do!  I guess this falls out of your fine motor skills topic--but heh, if my brain is working, can't be hurting my fine motor skills! 



____________________
Sarcoidosis/lungs, lymph,liver, GI, neuro, D12542, Ph17/07, MPh2 9/07, B12, cover up, NoIRs,return to work after 2 years off- 4/07D2511
5/09 D25<4


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