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Aunt Diana
Support Team
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 02:49 |
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Phil,
Reading through your recent history I see that your Vit D level has only recently come down...so you have not been experiencing IP until lately.
I totally agree with John MacDonald on this issue. I would put great odds on the fact that you are experiencing IP and thinking of it as allergies or a "cold".
This is one of the tricky and most fascinating things about the protocol...to come to the realization that your immune system, when it is functioning, does not make you feel "good" if you have bacteria to kill. In our quest to "feel good" we suppress the immune sytstem. ie. feeling good does not equal improvement at this stage of the game.
Also, quite early in the game for me I found all my allergies had quite disappeared....many other Mpers have had the same experience. Which leads me to wonder....just what are allergies, anyway? We still have a lot to learn.
I would trust the MP, lower the ABX to make your Ips more tolerable and see what develops.
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Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, hydrocodone, lorazapam, , benedryl, zantac, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30lux
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Phil Schoner
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Posted: Wed Jul 8th, 2009 15:06 |
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Regarding the allergy question: Is it allergies or is it IP? Perhaps I'll never know. I do know that when I stay inside, I feel better and when outside, I feel the effects. I also know that Claritin gives me relief, even when I am outside. I have also been monitoring a pollen and mold website that publishes pollen/mold count for my area and it has been showing very high levels. I can also see the pollen collecting on cars, the ground, etc in this area. It is very heavy. The other day I was outside and disturbed some pollen that had collected on my car. It flew into the air and I must have inhaled some. Within a few minutes I was feeling the effects. Net of all of this evidence, yes, I believe I am suffering from seasonal allergies, and yes, I am getting relief using standard OTC meds.
The pollen seems to be subsiding, and I am now hardly noticing it, although still on Claritin. I have an appointment tomorrow to see an allergist. Perhaps he/she can help me better deal with it next year. Or perhaps the MP will rid me of it by then.
I am also getting my D tested this week. I am expecting it to be well below the 16 level from last year. I am experiencing more fatique, and attribute it to a lower D level. Still on Maximun phase 2 (1/2 Z and 100 mino) but am about to add a pinch of Clindy to resume phase 3 which was suspended while I delt with the allergies.
Thanks all for the support and advice,
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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Debz
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 9th, 2009 15:01 |
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Phil,
I'm in phase 3, now at 3 months and am soon going to test for another IgA to see if my immunoglobulins (antibodies) are still low. They should be improving soon to give me Eye, oral, nasal, lung, sm and large intestine, rectal, and vag protection against pathogens. All these areas are improving, I am not so dry anymore. I was misdiagnosed with allergies, bronchitis, and sent to an allergist. I just had Th1 sensitivity.
Debz
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Dx-Sarc(collagen disorder)/Herpes Whitlow 03, Neuro,sinus,Hyster,ear. Mr Muscle-hayfever,acute/chron bronchitis, pneumonia,hilar adenopathy,liver tumor&lesion,lg spleen,strep throat,thrush, psyco Mp:4/8/08 mino & Noirs,4/28/08 benicar
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Phil Schoner
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 04:27 |
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I went to the allergist today and had my D tested. Will post results when I get them.
My most noticeable IP's are fatique and sore muscles at the base of my neck and upper shoulders. I know that the fatique is a very common IP, but has anyone else experienced the muscle pain? Feels like I can't hold my head up.
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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Joyful
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 06:39 |
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Hi Phil. 
I have a lot of pain/discomfort/tightness/crunchies in my neck and shoulders right now. Others have also reported this. Sometimes I'm convinced it is actually the result of neuro herxing.
My best 'treatment' for it is more time with my feet up and resting. Oh, and I work at trying to lower my IP.
Last edited on Fri Jul 10th, 2009 06:43 by Joyful
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Phil Schoner
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 18:21 |
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I go back to the Allergist next week to be tested for which allergens I am allergic to here in the Grand Tetons. When determined, my allergy shots will be formulated and I will start getting the shots. I did this same thing years ago when I lived in Cincinnati (the ragweed capital of the world). Shots are regional because different species grow in different areas of the country. By taking the shots in gradually increasing doses, you build up immunity to the allergens.
Neither Carol nor I remember seeing anything on the MP that says anything about taking allergy shots while on the MP. I would like to do this because I should build up my immunity by next spring when I return to Grand Teton NP.
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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Joyful
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 18:35 |
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Phil,
I think that what you are doing is building up a tolerance to the allergens, not an immunity.
If you take a little of something you are allergic to a little every day you can begin to tolerate the allergen... the response is blunted. That's how I remember it anyway.
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Search the MP Knowledge Base __ Be Kind, We Are All Fragile
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Aunt Diana
Support Team
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 18:45 |
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| Yes, it seems i always have tightness in the back of the neck and shoulder area. I recently listened to a relaxation tape...by the end of it my shoulders were 2 inches lower than when I started. It felt great.
____________________
Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, hydrocodone, lorazapam, , benedryl, zantac, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30lux
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Pipistrelle
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 19:47 |
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Phil, I had such a sore, weak neck/shoulders for the first few months that I had to prop my head up all the time. Heat helped - hot water bottle wrapped in a towel. Plenty of rest.
This has gradually sorted itself out, with occasional reminders which I take as being IP, usually combined with feeling more tired. But heaps better than the first 6 months.
Morag
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Sarc lungs, uveitis '90 dx '92, pred 18 mo '93-'94; D25 31 Nov 06, D1,25 35 Nov 06, NoIRs Feb '07, D restrict Nov 06, low lux home, cover up, light exp work
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jcwat101
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 19:56 |
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If you look at the ABCs of the MP link it says that allergy shots are to be avoided since they stimulate the immune system. I don't know if anyone has gone ahead and gotten them anyway while on the MP.
They do stimulate the immune system in order to generate blocking antibodies to specific allergens, or at least that was the theory a few years back.
Quite a few people have had their allergies disappear on the MP.
Joyce Waterhouse
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20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 1/05:22/6 9/05:1,25D=12 10/06:22/8, 4/07:25/<4 chewed Ben. 40mg q8h; Mod. P2: 2/23/05, P2: 4/06; P3: 1/1/07
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Phil Schoner
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 06:15 |
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Thanks Joyce for pointing me to the allergy discussion on the MP website.
I know we do not want to suppress the immune system, as that is what eventually kills most of the bugs. I can only speculate that stimulating the immune system with these shots will lead to run away IP (yes?).
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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jcwat101
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 01:45 |
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Truthfully, I don't know what effect it would have in combination with the MP.
Joyce Waterhouse
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20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 1/05:22/6 9/05:1,25D=12 10/06:22/8, 4/07:25/<4 chewed Ben. 40mg q8h; Mod. P2: 2/23/05, P2: 4/06; P3: 1/1/07
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Phil Schoner
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 16:50 |
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Having thought a little more on this allergy shot question, it would seem that my immune system is going to be stimulated one way or the other, either gradually via the shots, or not so gradually during the actual allergy season. Hmmm.
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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jcwat101
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 18:07 |
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But being exposed to the allergens in the environment is something many people on the MP have gone through, whereas to my knowledge, no one has done the allergy shots while on the MP. And often the hayfever goes away after a year or two on the MP. I'm not sure to what extent people on the MP have been using OTC and prescription allergy medications for hayfever -- you might search the site for the names of some common ones and see if there is any experience with them among MPers.
Joyce Waterhouse
Last edited on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 18:07 by jcwat101
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20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 1/05:22/6 9/05:1,25D=12 10/06:22/8, 4/07:25/<4 chewed Ben. 40mg q8h; Mod. P2: 2/23/05, P2: 4/06; P3: 1/1/07
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Phil Schoner
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Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 16:59 |
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I got my D results back - 16 - the same as last December. I was expecting a lower number to explain my recent IP's which are more noticeable. I am definitely feeling the effects of sun exposure these last several days. Also, feeling faint when I stand up after sitting, fatigue, and occasional sore muscles at the base of my neck.
I don't regard these as too severe so yesterday I began a new Zith cycle and added in 1/8 capsule of Clindy along with 100 mg Mino. (1/2 Zith) My allergies resolved as summer hit the Tetons, and I did not begin an allergy shot treatment. This is my second foray into phase 3 as I had suspended the clindy when the allergies hit in June.
Phil
Last edited on Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 17:00 by Phil Schoner
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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Phil Schoner
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Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 15:37 |
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I have been on the full phase 3 cycle of Zith, Mino, and Clindy (all at full strength) for about a month now with very minimal herxing. I am about to go to some of the other 3-abx combinations (bactrim, Deme). Some of these combos involve zith, some do not. Any advice on which to do first? Is a month long enough for basic phase 3 before going to these new combos?
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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Knochen
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Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 17:17 |
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Only a month at full dose seems a bit short to me. You might want to consider just staying at this dose and combo for a while. If you get a bit of a break because of low IP, so much the better! Don't be in a big rush here.
When you decide to move on, MZB might be a good choice. You can stay on the Z that way, and the Bactrim is a very different beast and may provoke some IP. Don't forget to reduce your dosages and ramp up again just in case this is the magic combo and you get hit with a lot of IP.
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Reiter's Syndrome 25+ yrs, fatigue, joints, muscles, migraine, brainfog| 25D 6 ng/ml |Benicar May06|Ph1 June06|Ph 2 Sept06|Ph 3 Jan 07|NoIRs K-Cream Zinc Oxide cream - Always covered!
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Sallie Q
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Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 00:31 |
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Phil
when I saw my doctor after a month at the level you are, I too expected to go straight on to other combinations, but doc kept me at same status for an extra 3 months.
I have just had my blood tests, so may finally be allowed to try something new.
You may be interested that as time went on I continued to herx, but in unexpected ways and places. Also none of it was too rough, although some rough enough to be sure. The best thing is that some of the stuff which used to prevent me sleeping seems to have simmered right down.
Everyone is very individual in response, but it seems to me from reading different threads that men can try and go too fast at times, which comes back to bite 'em.
I am grateful to Knochen as well as my doctor for encouraging me to take a softly softly approach here 
Sallie
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MP Sept'08 | Sjogrens; b.cancer '90; childhood postviral fatigue (CFS): 25D=7ng/ml@Jly'10
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 05:58 |
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Hi folks,
I've been away from the site for awhile; had spine surgery (great success) for a ski injury in June and got off the MP for that and for recuperation. Been back MPing since November, on Benicar, mino and Zith and will move on to Bactrim according to Dr. Blaney.
As with my experience before, I am not herxing, unless you count leg cramps. Maybe Bactrim will provoke something, we'll see, but I have the conundrum I had earlier: hard to tell what if anything is taking effect in absence of feeling bad.
I guess I will have to rely on blood tests to show when the inflammation markers have diminished or disappeared and I can declare "mission accomplished" in my prophylactic quest.
Anything to watch out for with Bactrim?
cheers
Dave
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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